Prince 1 and 1/2 - a new mod

[atrueprincefanfrom18]

Here's a recording of two of my tries, I don't think I can do better than the second attempt here honestly and to my eyes it looks identical to what's on the walkthrough:

That is exactly what I said here, He has fixed some wall bugs and has made guards more intelligent:

maybe that stuff not working is something that wasn't intended and got into the mod by accident?

That's the speciality of this mod. The author dived into the source code and changed it and that made guards more intelligent.

[Sance]

Okay so how is it that it works on this video:

And when I do the same thing it's not working for me? Is there something I'm missing here? What's the bug I should be exploiting here instead of playing the game like a regular person would?

Also just a plea to mappers: please make a few level sets that don't use bugs, it would be so great to play a new map pack after all these years instead of just replaying PoP1 and PoP2 every once in a while, I'm not asking for the world here, just a few, good little maps for people who don't care about the buggy stuff. Which was the last level set that didn't need bugs, 4D Prince of Persia?

Don't get me wrong, I have a certain kind of admiration for people who are into discovering bugs, it's just that quite possibly there won't be another PoP game like this ever again so the level sets being in this weird, inaccessible world of bug exploiting is just so sad. Especially when there is a great port like SDLPoP that even goes the extra mile to fix these issues to make the game more polished. You know, for old time's sake, just a few maps!

Edit: Thought that maybe the guards can step on shaky platforms now if the "sneak" behavior was changed... of course not:

I'm just curious at this point.

[atrueprincefanfrom18]

The distance matters. And yes, even I would like if someone would create a nice mod which has no exploitation of bugs, but that won't be a fun for me. It's funny when you exploit bugs!

Edit: Thought that maybe the guards can step on shaky platforms now if the "sneak" behavior was changed... of course not:

Haha! I told you, they are intelligent now. Only thing is they can't jump and all and follow you from door to door
Can you do that dmitrys?

[dmitrys]

I don't want to be harsh since I'm one of the ~3 people in the world who is refusing to do "tricks" (exploiting bugs) because I find them immersion breaking so 100% of these level sets are basically unplayable for me (so I usually don't even try these)... but why do you state that the map pack is not for the expert level and that completing it doesn't require bugs when that's not really the case here?

I mean I have no idea how to get to the sword on the first map, I try baiting the guard that's standing in my way but I guess you have to jump him (that's a bug) or lure him to the other screen because he's never far enough for me to climb up. Pressing shift and sneaking also doesn't seem to work here because the moment I climb up he just turns around. And really I wouldn't call this a "1.5 version" because Mechner was smart enough that in his design the only thing you need to know in order to reach the sword is basically learn how the gates and the jumping works instead of I dunno, needing to do pixel perfect guard luring just so that you could start playing the game (I get it, it's a mod and it's not for me, okay).

Edit: Looked at the walkthrough posted here and there walking and climbing just works and the guard doesn't turn around... maybe that stuff not working is something that wasn't intended and got into the mod by accident? I tried with the version that's in the comment above mine.

EDIT: The bug you found was unintentional (it was introduced only in the very latest attachement) and is fixed now.

There are some intentional bugs in the game but they are more like secrets. They are not required to pass the game.

[dmitrys]

Here's a recording of two of my tries, I don't think I can do better than the second attempt here honestly and to my eyes it looks identical to what's on the walkthrough:

That does not look right. Let me see if a bug has been introduced.

EDIT: yes, I have introduced a bug in the latest attachments.

[dmitrys]

Here the latest attachments that should fix that problem. The issue was only with the files I posted yesterday. Sorry about that.

EDIT: I also randomized chompers to make speed runs more difficult and increased the time to 75 min in these latest attachments to let users to explore levels more.

Windows:

prince_one_and_half.zip

(1.57 MiB) Downloaded 74 times

Linux:

prince_one_and_half.tar.gz

(1.03 MiB) Downloaded 63 times

[dmitrys]

Haha! I told you, they are intelligent now. Only thing is they can't jump and all and follow you from door to door
Can you do that dmitrys?

Technically it is probably possible but would require modifications to sequences and guard graphics would require all the frames necessary for jumping which is definitely more than I am willing to do.

The closest thing I did is when you drop a guard with more than 1 hit point 2 levels down, he twitches like he hurt his foot. But that's the most simple variation of a new move you can do to a guard.

[atrueprincefanfrom18]

Technically it is probably possible but would require modifications to sequences and guard graphics would require all the frames necessary for jumping which is definitely more than I am willing to do.

Yes, graphically, I think it's just best to show him disappeared, and then appear him in next level, with maybe a distance of two tiles.

The closest thing I did is when you drop a guard with more than 1 hit point 2 levels down, he twitches like he hurt his foot. But that's the most simple variation of a new move you can do to a guard.

This is brilliant actually. I wish this could get added to SDLPoP in fixes and enhancement. Logically, if Kid can survive the two floor fall, the guard should be able to too.

[dmitrys]

Yes, graphically, I think it's just best to show him disappeared, and then appear him in next level, with maybe a distance of two tiles.

If you are talking about the guard following kid across levels, there are 2 limitations that would make it difficult.

1. Levels can have different guard types (ex; guard on level 5, fat guard on level 6). And you cannot have different guards on the same level. While I was able to get around that limitation on level 12 but that is because the guards (shadow/mouse) do not appear when the level starts.

2. There are only 2 characters that can be controlled at 1 time - Kid and Guard. If you create a new guard on level start any guard that was in the same room would disappear. That trick can be seen in Repetition of Time level 8 where the guard disappears. The mouse is hidden behind a wall in that mod. I have a similar scenario on level 11 but the implementation is very different using a timer.

[atrueprincefanfrom18]

I actually was thinking if it would be possible to play PoP1 with nice graphics such as PoP2 and lot more features, such as different potions, different traps, and more guards in same room, and more movements Kid can do. Maybe there are lot of modifications to make and therefore looks too complex to create something like this...

[dmitrys]

Multiple guards per room and new movements would pretty much require writing a new game engine, imo. Guards are limited to 1 tile per room and they are not moveable objects which is why if a guard fell down you do not see him in the room below. Prince 2 fixed all those issues but it was a complete rewrite of the game engine. Add the graphics change and it becomes a new game.

Potions and traps really depend on whether they follow the game's rules and limitations.

In this mod there are some mechanics from POP2 that I have implemented.
- The upside down mode inverts the keyboard controls
- Kid is not going to activate buttons in the floating mode unless he jumps or hangs on that tile
- Loose tiles from the room above kill guards (levels 10 and 11)
- Level 2 has two exit doors that lead to different level 3 rooms
- Level 10 (if you do not use the trick on level 9) has an ending similar to the last palace level in POP2
- Prince can take out and put away sword (quickly) on demand before he is in a fighting range (with Alt)

I tried to make implement an ability for the shadow to step out of the kid after they have been united but it would make guards disappear due to the 2 character per room limitation.

[Sance]

Here the latest attachments that should fix that problem. The issue was only with the files I posted yesterday. Sorry about that.

Oh thank you, so it was a bug! Checked and sneaking works fine now.

Also: yep, this does seem nice and playable without that issue and I actually loved what you did with the potion room on the second level, good stuff with the scripting. And on the third map that's a fake potion? It feels fresh to see actual new features being implemented, this is giving me hope for level sets that not only 5 people can enjoy because they are based around bugs.

[dmitrys]

No, the top large potion on level 3 is necessary to pass the level. There are multiple new potions in this mod as well as new and unexpected special events. I am using additional modifiers for new potions and the empty potions that prince puts on the ground.

The game is playable without knowing any advanced bugs. There are a few things to figure out on some levels but they should be very straight forward. And all of it is already in the videos. The biggest thing is Jaffar is much more difficult to defeat as IMO the boss should be.

[dmitrys]

I play tested the mod and modified the attachments in the post above on this page to give more time to the player as well as make speed runs even more difficult by randomizing the chomper timings. So unless someone finds a bug that affects the gameplay, I consider the mod completed.

Is there a moderator who can delete attachments from the first post and refer users to the attachments on this page?

[Sance]

The game is playable without knowing any advanced bugs.

Sure but not fully, I mean you still require one of the gate bugs to be exploited here to pick up a potion here:

So to be brutally honest it seems to me that you've put all this effort into adding new features, new puzzles and some very interesting layout changes only so that you could add some of this bugged garbage on top of it, garbage that was never intended to exist in the game and garbage that literally only 5 people even know about and will just make most players who might try this because of the new features get stuck or frustrated. It's like I dunno, making a great Doom megawad and then making some rooms only accessible with noclip. You know, for example that gate bug, I look at the "tricks" section of PoPOT, watch the video with the bad explanation, try to trigger the bug for 5 minutes, fail and then ultimately give up because at the end of the day I just wanted to play Prince of Persia instead of doing QA. I'm lying here because the gate bug is something even I know how to do but you get the idea: finding out after the fact that you can't do something through regular gameplay because it's a bug locks players out of accessing this content.

On the other hand the game has so many mechanics that are not bugs or at least don't feel like bugs that are just not explored by the original game that even without adding anything there is stuff to figure out. And with added features? That plate moving potion on level 3 was a great idea and I could figure it out myself without having to look up bugs.