A Tiny Cliché

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doppelganger
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A Tiny Cliché

Postby doppelganger » July 5th, 2015, 3:48 pm

Ever noticed that everyone in both PoP1 and Pop2 (I don't know about the floating heads and the princess, do you?) are ambidexterous?
And is there a way to treat this 'little' problem? :lol:

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Re: A Tiny Cliché

Postby David » July 6th, 2015, 10:58 pm

doppelganger wrote:Ever noticed that everyone in both PoP1 and Pop2 [...] are ambidexterous?

Ah, they are holding the sword in their left or right hand depending on their direction.
This is because only the left-facing images are in the DAT files, and the right-facing images are made by mirroring.

Aladdin seems to have the same problem. (And there it's not just the sword but also the patch on his pants.)

doppelganger wrote:And is there a way to treat this 'little' problem? :lol:

A solution would be to draw separate images for left and right.
But then the game should be altered to handle this.
This would be hard with hex-editing prince.exe, changing SDLPoP might be easier.

Speaking of left and right...
Did you know that when Jaffar is walking (in the intro), you can't tell if he's stepping with his left or right leg?
The same image is used for both!

doppelganger wrote:I don't know about the floating heads and the princess, do you?

The heads don't have hands ;) (Persian head seeks arms?) and the princess never holds a sword.
(Or does she? In the collection of Mechner's images from the Apple II, there is an image of the princess in fighting stance. Look for the image named "PAC.MOUSE" in the ZIP.)

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Re: A Tiny Cliché

Postby Norbert » July 6th, 2015, 11:37 pm

David wrote:image of the princess in fighting stance


Nice find.
Maybe Mechner was considering an alternative bad ending for PoP similar to the one in his Karateka.

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Re: A Tiny Cliché

Postby David » July 8th, 2015, 7:26 pm

That would have been a bit strange: How did she get a sword? It's not a kick that needs no weapon.
And what would have caused it to happen? The kid in PoP can't draw his sword without a guard.

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Re: A Tiny Cliché

Postby Norbert » July 9th, 2015, 10:52 am

David wrote:That would have been a bit strange: How did she get a sword? It's not a kick that needs no weapon.
And what would have caused it to happen? The kid in PoP can't draw his sword without a guard.


That would then explain why he decided against what he was possibly considering. :)

David wrote:The kid in PoP can't draw his sword without a guard.


Except we can't draw the sword at all, the game does this... and could theoretically have done it when entering a room with the princess.
I dunno if the fighting stance in Karateka is automatic when you're within range of a living being, in particular at the end.

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Re: A Tiny Cliché

Postby David » July 10th, 2015, 4:32 pm

Norbert wrote:I dunno if the fighting stance in Karateka is automatic when you're within range of a living being, in particular at the end.

It's not automatic.

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Re: A Tiny Cliché

Postby doppelganger » July 10th, 2015, 5:16 pm

David wrote:Did you know that when Jaffar is walking (in the intro), you can't tell if he's stepping with his left or right leg?
The same image is used for both!


That is a real cliché.
I learnt it when I first handled PR.

Edit:
Consult this gif:

Image

A-HA!
Last edited by doppelganger on July 10th, 2015, 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Tiny Cliché

Postby David » July 10th, 2015, 5:39 pm

Why are you using the word cliché, by the way?
It means "overused phrase". Do you mean this or something else?

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Re: A Tiny Cliché

Postby doppelganger » July 10th, 2015, 6:06 pm

David wrote:Why are you using the word cliché, by the way?
It means "overused phrase". Do you mean this or something else?


Something else.
During the 1980s, programmers tried their best to save space.
This included mirroring images for the 'facing-other-direction' sprite.
Overused trick used even now for 2D games.
What I called 'cliché' until now.

Cliché can also mean something overused other than phrases.
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Re: A Tiny Cliché

Postby David » July 11th, 2015, 10:07 am

Oh, so you mean "overused space-saving trick".
doppelganger wrote:Consult this gif:
Image

I see you recolored one of his legs darker.

By the way, I looked through some versions and the SEGA Genesis version does not do this.

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Re: A Tiny Cliché

Postby Norbert » July 11th, 2015, 10:48 am

I think doppelganger means typical for that era.
I don't think he meant specifically the "overused space-saving trick".
That it totally fits with that era, it's associated with the era.
Stereotypical in a way, it was the conventional way of doing things.
Cliché does not just mean "overused phrase", it is also used for other things that are overused.
Used a lot in that era, to a point where it becomes typical and a defining attribute for that era.
Overused in that era. Cliché.
That's the direction you need to think in when you want to understand doppelganger's use of the word cliché.

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Re: A Tiny Cliché

Postby doppelganger » July 11th, 2015, 3:49 pm

Norbert wrote:I think doppelganger means typical for that era.
...
That's the direction you need to think in when you want to understand doppelganger's use of the word cliché.


I think he made my point clear. :P
Thanks, Norbert.
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Re: A Tiny Cliché

Postby David » July 25th, 2015, 11:59 am

Okay, so it means "typical" here.
Sorry for my non-understanding, but I never saw this word used with this meaning.

Another thing with left-right:
The guards turn around instantly, without any turning animation.
The kid, the princess, Jaffar (in the intro) all have turning animations.

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Re: A Tiny Cliché

Postby Norbert » July 27th, 2015, 10:56 am

Kinda related, what Mike says here: "Disappearing platforms. It's a staple in NES games."

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Re: A Tiny Cliché

Postby David » April 17th, 2016, 10:38 am

So "staple" is another word for this.
An then there is "trope", used by the TV Tropes website.


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