Contest #1 (1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012)

This contest takes place once every three months.

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Contest #1 (1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012)

Post by contest » August 11th, 2012, 1:41 pm

This thread can be used to discuss the first Prince of Persia 1 modding contest.
Contest #1 is taking place: 1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012
Please take a look at the Official Rules.
The General Discussion thread can be used to discuss things not specifically about contest #1.
Contest Start: 1 October 2012

Submission Period: 1 October 2012 - 30 November 2012

Judging Period: 1 December 2012 - 31 December 2012
  • Preparation: 1 December 2012 - 7 December 2012
  • Peers Vote: 8 December 2012 - 16 December 2012
  • :arrow: Jury Vote: 17 December 2012 - 31 December 2012
Contest End: 31 December 2012

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Re: Contest #1 (1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012)

Post by Norbert » August 11th, 2012, 1:59 pm

The main pages of princed.org, popuw.com and popot.org now have the first contest image linking to this thread.
Time to mass e-mail all the forum members about the contest. :D

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Re: Contest #1 (1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012)

Post by contest » October 1st, 2012, 12:00 am

The Submission Period for the contest has started! :)

From 1 October 2012 - 30 November 2012 you can submit your mod.

If you finished a mod, create a thread about your mod:
- DOS mods: create the thread here.
- SNES mods: create the thread here.

After you've created the thread, post a link to your thread here, so we know you want to join this contest with your mod.

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Re: Contest #1 (1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012)

Post by stiven202 » October 3rd, 2012, 11:37 pm

I want to enter the contest. They can download my snes mod Prince of Persia Dungeons of Hell here:

viewtopic.php?f=116&t=3189

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Re: Contest #1 (1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012)

Post by Norbert » November 1st, 2012, 4:35 pm

One month left to submit mods, you guys! :)
Anyone else working on a mod for this contest?
I'm working on one myself, but I'll finish it in time for the 2nd contest, not this first one...
Will you make it for this one, programmer?

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Re: Contest #1 (1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012)

Post by contest » December 1st, 2012, 1:02 pm

The six Mods competing in this First Contest are, alphabetically:
See the screenshots below for information about how they were picked.

Phase 1 (Preparation) of the Judging Period is from 1 December 2012 - 7 December 2012.

:arrow: Forum members can now register themselves if they want to vote as Peers.
Peers may be Entrants but must not be part of the jury!
Simply post in this thread if you want to be a Peer voter.

:arrow: Also, jury members are now being nominated and appointed.
Jury members cannot self-judge, thus Entrants cannot be Jurors.
Simply post in this thread if you want to nominate someone.

Note: there is no need to vote yet. Below are the dates when that happens.
Peers Vote: 8 December 2012 - 16 December 2012
Jury Vote: 17 December 2012 - 31 December 2012

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Re: Contest #1 (1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012)

Post by Norbert » December 1st, 2012, 1:07 pm

I'm going to give one of the Peer votes. :)

I nominate as Jurors, if they want of course, these peeps that have been around for years: Eagle-Head Priest 97, Veke, mk1995, programmer and David.
Max. three Jurors, so depending on other nominations, the others can be part of the Peer vote if they want.

I will also message the folks whose mods were picked, to make sure they don't mind participating.

[Edit: Done. Messaged Jakim (update: he has no objection), musa, robert (update: he's okay with participating) and tacosalad (update: he's okay with it). I e-mailed LIONKINGSKHALID, since I only have an e-mail address of him (update: his reply "yes insert my mod in it.").]
Last edited by Norbert on December 8th, 2012, 11:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Contest #1 (1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012)

Post by Norbert » December 5th, 2012, 4:54 am

Anyone else besides me who wants to vote for the contest?
If so, please say so in this thread.
No need to vote yet; just checking who wants to vote...

It wouldn't be the end of the world if nobody else wants to.
I could pick the three best and then mk1995 may be willing to put these three in order to create the top 3.

But it would be nice if a few more people would be willing to vote.
Would make it more of a community thing and less of a personal preference thing.

At least 3 of the 6 mods have several videos of the levels on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/AlejoRoldan ... ?query=doh
http://www.youtube.com/user/TrackMan068 ... +of+persia
http://www.youtube.com/user/Khushal64n6 ... on+puzzles

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Re: Contest #1 (1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012)

Post by Norbert » December 8th, 2012, 1:25 pm

Jakim, did you know there is a much easier way to finish level 7 than what's shown here? :)
(The easier way is without getting the LP.)

[Edit: Found a shortcut for level 10. See here.]

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Re: Contest #1 (1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012)

Post by Norbert » December 9th, 2012, 9:48 pm

This is my personal Peer Vote.
In other words, keep in mind that...

The following are NOT the definitive contest results.
The Jury Vote will be later in December.


Some other things to keep in mind:
- First of all, I hope I don't piss anyone off. Remember, it's just a contest.
- All of the following is just my personal opinion about the six mods.
- I did not take into account: the mod authors' ages, the mods' creation years, whatever YouTube footage of the mods is out there, and whether it's the authors' first mod or not.

#1 Potion Puzzles (2005)

My personal favorite out of the six. I enjoyed playing this one, I liked solving the puzzles. The last couple of levels are a bit less impressive.

#2 Dungeons Of Hell (2012)

Nice mod. Challenging at places, for example in level 5. Sometimes a bit too mazy. Some good level design ideas here and there.

#3 Jakim's Levels (2009)

Easy levels, some a bit more difficult. Some interesting levels, like level 11. The LPs are easy to obtain. A little mazy here and there. I've finished certain levels in more than one way. As I wrote in the mod's thread, I don't know how to finish level 12a - if it's possible. [Edit: Never mind, I understand what to do now.]

#4 Leteipa (2008)

For beginning players, this mod is great, because guards are (very) easy and levels are straightforward. I like that it's always clear where to go. Level 9 is a bit more difficult. Getting the LPs is easy. A bit too many guards were used. As I wrote in the mod's thread, level 8 cannot be finished without applying changes to it first (with a level editor, I mean).

#5 Out Of Time (2011)

The levels feel very big, like the player is just walking around a lot without much happening. A lot of LPs, these are easy to obtain. Sometimes 2 or 3 (and even 4) obtainable LPs per level. Easy levels. Some levels are a bit mazy. I didn't like floating down into spikes that I couldn't see coming, I think that happened to me twice.

#6 Return to Persia (2007)

It's a complete mod, so I can tell effort was put into this. I decided to give it the 6th spot because it lacks variation. In the later levels I felt like I was just running into guards (with 10+ health) constantly, which gets tiresome. A bit too mazy here and there. One thing that annoyed me is that several levels - more than just 'here and there' - have spots where you go down or right into another room and just die without warning, because there is no room there. Only with cheats enabled can the player theoretically avoid that.

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Re: Contest #1 (1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012)

Post by Norbert » December 12th, 2012, 11:54 pm

mk1995 wrote:
Norbert wrote:It wouldn't be the end of the world if nobody else wants to.
I could pick the three best and then mk1995 may be willing to put these three in order to create the top 3.
(22:50:39) mk1995: I think I'll have to drop out of the permanent jury for this contest. Life not giving me any breaks whatsoever nowadays prevents me from playing any of the mods. There may be a chance I could jump back in for the next one, but that largely depends on if my personal life allows it and - more importantly - if the contest is even taking off at all. I really hate to break it to you, but so far, it doesn't seem so.
- - - - - - - - - -
(23:41:31) Norbert: You wouldn't necessarily have to play all of them, I think. The end of this posts lists links to YouTube videos of 3 of the 6 mods: viewtopic.php?p=12151#p12151
(23:42:06) Norbert: Are you in touch with any of the old school PoP1 fans, maybe you can persuade one of them to be a jury member this contest?
(23:42:40) Norbert: I've tried all I could to draw in participants and jury members, I've even mass e-mailed several times...
(23:43:51) Norbert: What I've noticed is that people seem to be excited at first, but then we never heard from them again. A good example is programmer, who wrote "So, I've started to make my new PoP mod, which I am going to submit to the contest." and then disappeared. He's still visiting this forum now and then, but isn't answering questions related to his mod.
(23:44:05) Norbert: Then there is Moscow Tracer, who wrote: "I will participate) What should I do?) Too many letters for reading with my poor English lol :D"
(23:44:39) Norbert: I mailed Moscow Tracer about the Russian forum section and the contest, but he seems to be gone. David hasn't been around for a while too.
(23:44:46) Norbert: spartacus735 wrote: "I would like join this ;)" and "I guess I could be part of the jury this time. Though I would like to make a mod the next season."
(23:44:58) Norbert: Veke wrote: "I'll look to participating in some way once I get back home [...]" and also wrote "I was thinking of making a mod, actually. That'd make me the first who's signed up for making a PC mod..."
(23:45:08) Norbert: Then there is Eagle-Head Priest 97, who wrote: "I may consider jurying or making some new mods!"
(23:45:24) Norbert: Even poirot wanted to be a jury member, but later wrote "I'm very busy right now, I could be a juror in the future, [...]"
(23:47:23) Norbert: So, it seems that on the one hand people are excited, but on the other they appear to underestimate how little time they have in their lives. Everyone needs to remember that "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy." :)
- - - - - - - - - -

I decided to also post this here, since it's a bit much for (just) the shoutbox.

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Re: Contest #1 (1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012)

Post by tacosalad » December 17th, 2012, 12:01 am

I didn't play Out of Time or Dungeons of Hell so I can't offer any insight into those two mods. I'd been looking forward to Dungeons of Hell but I don't have any experience with SNES games in general, let alone PoP on the SNES.

Leteipa would earn my highest rating among these mods except that level 8 is either unreasonably difficult or defective. I eventually concluded that it's a defect, which concurs with this comment in the Leteipa thread.

Leteipa is a simplified retelling of the Prince Of Persia story, retaining many of the best elements while adding a few creative flourishes of its own. It's like Mini Prince of Persia. Among these six mods, it best captures the feel and style of the original. If a newbie played Leteipa without first playing PoP, it would tell an accurate-but-simpler version of the story. (And it wouldn't spoil the original surprises and puzzles if the player went on to play the original Pop.)

Leteipa isn't bland or boring, but it's shorter than the original PoP so it has fewer challenges. The guards are tougher, and there are precious few Life Potions, which demands disciplined swordfighting throughout. At first I got mauled by the guards because I'd gotten lazy after playing other mods that have too many Life Potions and Healing Potions. In contrast, some levels in Leteipa don't have any Healing potions at all, so the player can't afford to be hit even once per swordfight.

With the exception of a single tile in level 5, the rooms in Leteipa are beautiful and visually perfect. That must've taken serious effort; it's as well-crafted as Jordan Mechner's original, which is impressive considering Mechner had the freedom of adjusting his graphics to fit his layouts whereas Leteipa obviously had to craft its layouts to conform to Mechner's graphics.

Unfortunately, the uncomplete-able level 8 is a disqualifying fault so I couldn't recommend Leteipa to anyone in its current form. But it's got so much potential think it deserves to be fixed and distributed. A repaired version would be an entertaining training exercise for beginners. Advanced players might need less than an hour to play through, but Leteipa is worth it. Yes it's fairly easy, but it's not boring. You sure won't be stumped, but the challenges force you to pause and think like this elevated run in level 9 (reminiscent of PoP2)...
L9.jpg
Leteipa's Level 9 features an elevated run like PoP2
Jakim's Levels provide a longer-lasting game than Leteipa and it poses more complicated puzzles and a far more complex layout. I particularly admired the variety of ways the player is forced to criss-cross over his route.

The layout in Jakim's Levels prioritizes game play over attractiveness. That's not a bad thing: it optimizes the puzzles and challenges. Consequently some rooms look unavoidably awkward because the tiles had to be arranged in a purely-functional way. But the author wasn't careless: he decorated the rooms attractively whenever it was possible to do so without sacrificing game play.

Ultimately Jakim's Levels feels like the average PoP mod: it's reasonably good, it has some creative touches, but it doesn't really distinguish itself from all the other decent mods that are littered with mazes, guards, and Life Potions.

Return to Persia is a disaster. At first Norbert's comments seemed harsh to me, but now that I've played it I think he was (if anything) too kind. It's incoherent, rambling, and confused. Admittedly I didn't complete the whole game--my patience ran out at Level 8 because it was irritatingly copied from PoP without a real appreciation for the original.

The dungeon graphics are customized, but the revisions don't enhance the game because they don't make any sense! Giant columns resemble the cave structures in PoP2, walls resemble stonework from PoP2, and the windows are filled with giant snowflakes. It might've been interesting if everything was made of ice, or everything was stone, or everything was cave-like. Castle graphics are unchanged, but the rooms are littered with ugly blemishes and pointless mistakes.

But worst of all is the game play. It's pleasant enough, but it quickly gets bland and tedious because the game lacks structure. It feels like hundreds of rooms strung pointlessly together, with arbitrary jumps from one level to the next every 24 rooms.

It's a real shame. It would've been great if the author of Return to Persia had teamed with someone who had a talent for theme and level design, thereby giving his graphics skills some real purpose.

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Re: Contest #1 (1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012)

Post by contest » December 17th, 2012, 5:26 am

Alright, it's time for the Jury Vote. This phase is two weeks: 17 December 2012 - 31 December 2012.
One or more jurors rank the mods that triumphed during the recent Peer Vote, to create the final top 3.
I will point the following folks to this post: David, Eagle-Head Priest 97, mk1995, Moscow Tracer, programmer, Veke.
They've been around for years and also (fairly) recently visited the forum.
If you think someone else should be notified, by all means, go for it.
We can't have winners without one or more jurors...
If necessary, even one juror could do the job, taking into account what has already been written about the mods (by tacosalad here and Norbert here).
Again, general information/files relating to the 6 competing mods can be found here.
Some YouTube videos here, although these obviously won't give you the fun/enjoyment/experience of figuring things out for yourself.

:!: Jurors, please announce the final contest result at the end of December, after you've jointly agreed on the winners.

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Re: Contest #1 (1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012)

Post by Norbert » January 2nd, 2013, 7:25 pm

It looks like, so far, nobody has stepped forward to create a top 3 out of the contest entries that tacosalad and I wrote about/preferred.
So, what should we do with the first contest, and with the general idea of having contests...
...remove the banners from the websites and close the threads/board, or try to find ways to revive it, or maybe something else entirely?

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Re: Contest #1 (1 October 2012 - 31 December 2012)

Post by robert » January 4th, 2013, 12:02 am

(sorry for my poor english)

Just because I've retired (temporairly) from POP, I would love to try the mods and give my opinion. I'm sorry if I didn't contribute nothing, but I can't try a mod and get bored in the first level. It may sound selfish but you might understand, don't you?. I can only talk about my mod Out Of Time, but it's kind of late now. I promise, if there is going to be a second contest, I will try the mods and give a feedback. For this contest, what I can say is that I'm really sorry that the results were not as expected.

Why are there so many members in the forum and just little of them are frecuently online? :(

Don't forget my promise ;)
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